Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (00:00)
In this episode, I share some learnings from a spam bot attack. We recap the conference we went to, and more. Let's go.

Rick (00:26)
I figured out why I can't see the thing, the the countdown. Yes.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (00:30)
The k the countdown? Why is that?

Rick (00:33)
I use the overlay and the overlay does not show up in the countdown. So

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (00:37)
so

you have some other window on your screen with a little picture in picture of me.

Rick (00:42)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (00:42)
What's the other screen? I guess the notion duck? Hmm. Interesting.

Rick (00:45)
It's the notion agenda. So I now know what

w what why I I was mistiming my what's up this week, Tyler?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (00:54)
Yeah. Well, long time no see. how's it going?

Rick (00:59)
I'm still recovering from the trip. I got some like weird congestion. Every time I leave Utah and go to a more humid place and come back, my sinuses go crazy 'cause of the dryness here. Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (01:08)
Really? Huh.

y they go they go crazy when you come back, not when you're in the humid place.

Rick (01:12)
Mm-hmm. Yes,

it's like, why did you just give me so much moisture and then take it away?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (01:20)
Yeah, this is one of one thing I do not miss about Utah. but yeah, for the listener who's not caught up, we were Rick and I went to Minneapolis Saturday through Tuesday, partially to hang out and partially to go to the Health of Palooza health insurance conference. yeah, you wanna just kinda recap it? What what what are your thoughts on how it went, what you learned, etcetera?

Rick (01:45)
I thought y'all did a awesome job being a GOLT sponsor at Less Annoying CRM. I I think probably the funniest story. I don't know if I'm a lot of talk about this on the podcast, but the demographic of insurance agents is is is let's just call it older than Tyler and I. And Tyler and I not young anymore. so

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (02:06)
No, we're we're entering middle age here.

Rick (02:09)
the funniest moment of my of of our time I think was like I think it was second night or third.

Well, last night we we go to the bar with our drink tickets and I've never been carded at a conference before, but the guy asked

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (02:21)
Yeah.

Rick (02:22)
me asked us to card it get carded and he looks at our IDs and it's like, What the heck? I was expecting like ten to twenty years younger and I think like Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (02:31)
Yeah. We we are double the a the legal drinking age and he carded us.

Rick (02:35)
And so what I realized was like relative to, you know, the the average attendee there, we looked like

juveniles. Juveniles. And so

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (02:44)
Yeah. I like

the idea that some twenty year old is going to this conference though, trying to trying to get some beer.

Rick (02:49)
Yeah. Yeah. So

yeah. Anyway, that was my that was the highlight for me.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (02:57)
Yeah. yeah, I I haven't been to a conference in a long time. It was good a a good experience. It's v very, very outside of my comfort zone to just go up and talk to strangers. But the nice thing about having a booth is they come up and talk to you for the most part.

Rick (03:13)
Any major takeaways for you about conferences in general, the insurance agent vertical or otherwise?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (03:22)
I'm still I'm still kind of thinking through my thoughts here. So I don't know that I have any amazing ones, but one is just I kind of affirming what I already knew, but maybe even stronger. Like what I expected going in was this is not gonna be a good way to directly get customers. Like we spent twelve and a half thousand dollars just on the sponsorship, not counting travel and lodging and other expenses. so call it, you know.

16,000 all in or something like that. At a $15 per user rate, and most health insurance agents are one to two user accounts, you know, you'd have to get a whole lot of customers to s to see ROI on that. And I I knew that going in that there's no way we're walking out of that conference with enough customers that we can say, it worked. So then what's the point of it? How do we evaluate if it worked? Well, I those are two different questions, I guess. But what's the point is

Even though potentially zero people or maybe one to five people will sign up and become customers from this, five hundred ICPs were there and they definitely all heard our name at least one like almost all of them talked to us. Like we we paid to kind of get really good placement. We we got a five minute talk during lunch with a captive audience. Like five hundred people will know our name in the future when that problem hits. That's the good side of it, is lots of people know who we are now.

Hard to measure the value of that. I have more to say, but yeah, reactions to that part.

Rick (04:52)
No, I think that's right. it definitely I I thought that your booth setup was really good in terms of explaining your value proposition, getting people information and and like no one the the the great thing about your name is less annoying CRM is hard to forget. And I think that yeah,

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (05:09)
Mm-hmm.

Rick (05:09)
people pe that that that played really nicely at at a at a event like that because it's something to talk about. and it

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (05:15)
Mm-hmm.

Rick (05:16)
just saying your name over and over again. I also thought that you know your your free trial

sort of call to action is a really good one for an event with QR codes, galore and and I don't know, did you were you able to a to track any free trials back?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (05:32)
One person signed up like right in front of us. I should go look at like yeah, go ahead.

Rick (05:35)
Mm. Did did did

your QR code embed any sort of tracking?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (05:43)
Yeah, so the QR code did the then there's also like a link that if you type the link in, it doesn't because like it's too hard to get people to type a long URL. But yeah, while we're talking here, I'm gonna see if I can we we should move on because this might take I I forget where this report lives, but it's funny

Rick (05:59)
Yeah, yeah. Now I'd be curious if like you could a tr yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (06:03)
Well about the name thing, I think this was at happy hour before you got there because you were like on a different call or something, but

One of our competitors, Agency Block, was there and they brought like customer champions and I don't I don't know how that their badges said like agency block champion. And one of them walked up and was just like in a friendly way was just like, I hate your name. So even the people

Rick (06:22)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (06:24)
who hate it, they still notice it.

Rick (06:26)
Yes.

Yes, exactly. I I I I don't think that's a bad thing. the other

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (06:31)
Yeah. By the end of the

call we had partially partially gotten her to call.

Rick (06:38)
the other thing I thought was interesting is

It's interesting. I don't know if this is unique to the health vertical in particular, or the the group that we were that at this conference, but they're definitely like very sp like you're a very one-to-many CRM. Like we do everything. You can custom you know, like the the the observation I had was the agents at this conference had very specific workflows that they

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (07:08)
Uh-huh.

Rick (07:08)
need, like and and less annoying CRM can be used for that, but isn't necessarily like

click a button and we do that. and so I thought

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (07:17)
Right.

Rick (07:17)
that there was an interesting sort of ecosystem of very narrow CRM type tools, CRM like tools that are in you know sort of connected to the

compliance areas like CMS, which is the like federal agency that oversees Medicare. anyway, that that was interesting to me. and I don't know what it means exactly, but I I just can't can't not say, that that's interesting.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (07:46)
Yeah. Yeah, it was such a different environment. I I have a few like kind of offshoots of that of what you just said. So like one is I went to the agency block. Again, one of our competitors, I went to their presentation, which was mostly their customers, like they gave a demo, but it was the people in attendance were mostly their customers asking questions. I'm watching this, like, wow, they have everything. They like directly connect to all this stuff. They send out newsletters. They already have newsletter templates for like what

What would a health insurance agent send to their clients just before open enrollment starts? They've got that template ready to go. You don't even have to write it yourself. Just every little specific workflow that a health insurance agent needs, they've got. And I, you know, of course I'm f feeling a little inadequate looking at that. We don't have any of that stuff. but then someone raises their hand and is like, I also sell what's the other C and whatever commercial the other type of insurance everyone sell? Like property and cap,

Rick (08:38)
property and casualty people call it P and C.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (08:39)
P and C, right? Sorry.

You can tell I'm an expert in this industry. someone's like, I also sell P and C and the agency block person was just like, no, track that with a different CRM. You just need two CRMs. And I'm like, what? You have every single feature imaginable, but you can't track just anything except health insurance. It's so that that was a a a bit eye-opening where it's yeah, like we're so substandard in some ways, and then other things that they can't do at all are just like table stakes for us.

but at this conference it's a bit demoralizing because what everyone wants is that that really, really specific workflow, you know.

Rick (09:16)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (09:18)
the other offshoot that to like back up and then go off a different offshoot, i it was a good reminder to me of how I think a lot of the struggles we've had and that I've talked about on this podcast throughout the years can all be traced back to the same thing, which is that we have happy customers and those are the people we primarily talk to. And you kind of

Yeah, you talk to a lead every once in a who's like, Do you have X, Y, and Z? And we're like, well, we have X and Z, but we don't have Y. And they're like, okay, maybe we'll see. But like most like 90%, 95% of the the feedback we're getting are from people who are using us, who at least made it to that point. And then you go to this conference and there's there's two types of people, and neither of them are our happy customers. One is who we think of as our ICP, someone who's not using anything. And they come up and they're like,

They're not feeling the pain yet, right? They didn't come to this conference because they need a CRM. They're not looking for CRM. So they come up and they're like, I get that you're simpler than the other ones, but you're still a lot harder than writing this shit on post-it notes. So bye, you know. And then the other type is someone who's like, I'm using agency block. I'd love something simpler, because agency block is very complicated and clunky. So they're like, I'd love something simpler. I assume you integrate with connecture.

And I'm like, I've never heard of connector. What's that? And I assume

Rick (10:36)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (10:37)
you integrate with this and I assume you integrate and we're no, we don't do any of that. And they're like, Why are you here? Like, of course

Rick (10:42)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (10:43)
I'm not gonna use you. So anyway, just seeing like those are the real people out in the world. We live in our office where we only talk to the happy customers that actually felt the pain and we were the solution to the problem. So you can just really get a distorted view of the market that way.

Rick (10:57)
Have you ever heard of Connecture prior to this conference?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (11:01)
I had like in the process of researching this conference I had, but there's

Rick (11:05)
Not from a customer though.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (11:06)
not from a customer I don't or I it's hard to say. Customers, every day someone comes in and is like, you guys are gonna fail as a CRM company because you don't have an integration with blank. And blank, we look it up and we're like, ten people use that company. Like, what are you talking about? It's just really important to their workflow. It's very possible someone has said connecture before and I forgot it.

And it's such a generic name, it doesn't scream health insurance, you know.

Rick (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (11:37)
But no, th and and there's retire flow is another one that was at the conference that like it would be good for our customers if we had an integration with them. I'm sure they've I'm sure it's been asked before, but a thousand things have been asked, you know.

Rick (11:49)
Yeah, yeah. good.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (11:53)
But then the flip side of that is like, okay, so these none of the people there are in they're they're not currently CRM buyers. I shouldn't say none, by the way. Three people signed up through the QR code, I found. found the report.

Rick (12:05)
Nice.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (12:06)
almost none of them are buyers. But so this goes back to what I said at the beginning, like we weren't expecting to convert people, but five hundred people will like of them, the hope is that only three are buyers right now.

But hopefully fifty, a hundred, two hundred of them over the next decade become buyers or they know someone who is. And if we keep going to these conferences, ten thousand people know who we are when the time comes that they need to use to to to buy a CRM.

Rick (12:33)
That makes sense to me. I buy it. You'll know

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (12:36)
It's

Rick (12:37)
in three years whether this was a good idea or not.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (12:39)
Yeah, or maybe not. Like even if even if it works, well we know that this is what did it, which

Rick (12:45)
Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (12:46)
thing you and I were talking about at the conference is we used to ten years ago, twelve years ago, we would go to stuff, conferences, and we stopped because we could never attribute any benefit to it. Maybe that was a mistake. Like like something about what we did ten years ago worked and it's not working now, or it's not working as well now. We don't know what thing we stopped doing.

That was previously working. Maybe it was this.

Rick (13:10)
Yeah, I I was thinking the one one thing that you said at the conference to me that I that that I've been thinking a lot about is in the in in the days of less annoying's higher velocity excuse me, higher velocity growth, you were out in market in different ways, meaning you were talking to prospects, you were talking to non customers, in different ways. It could be someone who's, you know, got a question pre sale and maybe you were talking to them or you're out at a conference, or you're just out in market.

And I think that this is a way for you to get out and market. Maybe it's a very expensive way to get out and market, but like I think that's a good thing. And I don't I think that that that is something that if you if I feel like some level of that is necessary for you to get to where you want to go. And so do you have to be a gold sponsor to do be out in market? No. but but certainly you can ex there are benefits that come come with that.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (14:05)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think we t totally agree. When we decided to do this, we kind of said to ourselves, unless this is like such a flop that we come back completely demoralized, like we have to commit to doing this for at least I'd say two two years. Like not just this conference, but we need to go to this conference, we need to go to we we also went to I didn't, but two of my teammates went to a local St. Louis, like ninety person insurance meetup last week.

We need to do c events. We need to advertise specifically to insurance agents. We need to build out our health insurance marketing site. We need to like give it a go and probably spend fifty plus thousand dollars a year for a couple of years before we can even try to decide if it's working, basically.

Rick (14:55)
I agree.

One other interesting note is no single attendee wanted to talk to me about AI. And I was

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (15:06)
Mm-hmm.

Rick (15:06)
so disturbed by that. So I was curio I'm curious, like did anyone come to the booth and say what AI features do you have?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (15:15)
N no, I don't think so. I not to me. There were three of us there, so but not to me, no.

Rick (15:21)
No

one wanted I tried to talk about it with people and people were like, nah. So I I wa that was a eye-opening experience for me. Now it's a demo it's probably a demographic, you know, s you know slide. I think anyone who listens to this podcast is thinking about AI every day and using AI every day.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (15:35)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Rick (15:37)
but I was surprised by that.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (15:41)
Agreed, if I can try to rationalize it a little bit. It was already the case that the the type of person like me, if I'm buying health insurance, but I I don't have the background, I do like I actually do think health insurance agents can bring a lot of value. 90% of them don't, but some of them do. but if I didn't know that from work experience, I would be the type of person that just goes on a website, picks a plan, hits buy.

And that's the type of person who AI the type of customer that AI is going affect the most, I think. There is some truth to the idea that the people at this conference only exist for the lack of AI. They only exist for that person to person shaken hands interaction. Now, that's not to say they shouldn't be using AI to be more efficient or find leads easier or whatever, but I do think like the idea of AI completely upending their business is not any different from

twenty years ago and it was like the internet's gonna completely upend their business and they're like, I'm just gonna keep shaking hands and it'll work.

Rick (16:45)
Yeah. Still, it was different than the worlds we

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (16:49)
Agreed.

Rick (16:50)
live in.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (16:50)
So d because like, you know, the last it's not really a conference, but the last event I went to was Big Snow Tiny Conf with a a bunch of people like the or not a bunch, t twelve people like us. And last year's Big Snow Tiny Conf was I I got a lot out of it, but I was also like at the end, I was like, did we have a single conversation that wasn't about AI? Like that's the only thing we talked about. And then yeah, going there and the only mention I heard on stage, I think, was one of the people went.

AI's not gonna take your jobs. It's not going to, it's not going to, end of story. And then that was the only mention I think that anyone on stage made.

Rick (17:23)
Correct. Now, there was one session that had AI in the title and it was

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (17:28)
Mm, yeah.

Rick (17:29)
fully booked, like before the conference even started. So maybe there is interest, but people don't know how to talk about it.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (17:38)
Yeah, and yeah, and fear. Like I'm afraid of AI and I'm in a pretty good, you know, I'm pretty tech savvy. I'm still young enough to get carded at a bar. Like these people are in a much worse position to adopt AI, espe and a lot of them are so many people I talked to were like, I'm hoping to retire in the next few years. Like double

Rick (18:01)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (18:01)
digit percent. It's it's a very interesting group of people. And yeah, if if I'm retiring in the next few years, I'm

I'm probably not worrying about AI either. I'm just like, you know, how do I how do I land the plane and retire? I'm not trying to like disrupt the industry here, you know.

Rick (18:16)
Yeah, I'm just trying to make it to to to the destination I'm trying to make. I don't care about any of this change.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (18:20)
Yeah. And

if it and if their business dies today from AI, they're probably like, Well, then I'll I'll be a little poorer in retirement, but I can still retire.

Rick (18:29)
Early

early call.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (18:31)
Yeah.

Rick (18:32)
what any other takeaways for you from the from the experience? I was I was really glad I came out a day early to hang out with you. That was really fun for me

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (18:39)
Yeah.

Rick (18:40)
personally. so thanks for letting me come.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (18:43)
Yeah, I mean that was definitely my highlight. yeah, so for the listener, Rick and I both went out on Saturday, bar crawled Minneapolis, spent the whole day just hanging out. Yeah, that that was great. Coincidentally, during one of the downtimes at the booth, Eunice and Ruth were we we were all just talking. It was like a slow period, nobody was coming up to us. And they were talking about like the differences between like male versus female friendships. And they're like, Yeah, all the guys I know

They're just friends with their high school friends and they only talk about sports and video games. If I if I ask my husband how how their friends are doing, he's like, I don't know, but he's good at Call of Duty. You know, like that's the relationship. And then they looked at me and they're like, Do you have any friends that you actually like talk about stuff with? And I was like, funny you should ask, because I just spent all day Saturday hanging out with Rick just talking about stuff. and I don't know, it it it made me appreciate that even more that they were like, guys don't even do that. Guys don't have that in their lives.

Rick (19:40)
Yeah. Yeah, it was good for me too. I the Minneapolis is a cool city. I I haven't spent time in the

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (19:45)
Yeah, it is.

Rick (19:46)
summer there, but I I thought it was pretty cool.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (19:49)
Yeah. Went to a fantastic fine dining restaurant for dinner, went to they have an abundance of Irish and British pubs, which not normally my favorite, but we had a good time.

Rick (20:00)
Ha

ha

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (20:03)
yeah. and then yeah, I guess just the the only other thought I'll say about the conference itself is it reminded me that just doing stuff is probably like a good thing for team morale as well. just like for a while you can put your head down, just go into the office, stay, you know, like a company like Less Ring Sierra mostly needs to do internal stuff. We need to build product, we need to take inbound calls.

you know, it's all inbound and internal. but if you do that for too long, it definitely starts to feel repetitive and mundane. And going to a conference can be a good way to get out of that. even if there's no value aside from just kind of putting a jolt in the the team members you know day to day life.

Rick (20:51)
Totally. And and they re they repped you well, Eunice and Ruth. I thought it was they did a great job. Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (20:55)
yeah, they're so much better at it than me.

thank you for saying that. But yeah, I'm one of my thoughts was like, I like doing that maybe once a year. I don't want to do that multiple times a year. And afterwards I asked both Eunice and Ruth, like, how often would you want to do that? If it's just purely for your own enjoyment. And they're like, you know, like every other month or something. And I'm like, Great. I don't need to go. Have fun. Yeah.

Rick (21:19)
Wh which one's next?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (21:22)
So yeah, that's that's actually

We we need to do a whole team recap about the conference, but one of the big questions is we need to I think that event was perfect. It was big enough that, you know, hundreds of people, big enough that it was worth the effort, but small enough that we were the second biggest sponsor there. There are other ones that are like 5,000, like 10 times the size. My instinct is that's not gonna go better for us. Like, yes, way more total people we could touch, but we're gonna be the

twentieth biggest sponsor for the same price, and no one's gonna walk away having heard of us is is my guess. What do you think about that?

Rick (22:00)
Only one way to find out.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (22:02)
Yeah. yeah, we'll probably do one of but anyway, I'm I'm gonna try to find more like this one.

Rick (22:09)
Yeah. I I think in terms of brand recognition value for the money you're paying, like never not a single person that was at that conference did not probably get less annoying serum imprinted in their brain somehow. and next time they see your logo, they'll like, I know them.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (22:24)
Mm-hmm. And there's only like there's only two other CRMs there. So now, previously in all of their brains, there are two healthcare health insurance CRMs. Now there are three. Yeah. So cool. Moving on, I guess, unless you got any other conference thoughts.

Rick (22:40)
one of

the hypotheses you had wa around the conference was HIPAA being a big thing. Did that come up at all?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (22:46)
Yes, it definitely did. So yeah, we finished HIPAA compliance the Friday. The conference started on Sunday. so just just got it in under the wire. But all our banners, all our flyers, everything s HIPAA compliance was pretty prominent. one pr the the best conversation, someone came up and they were like, less annoying serum, I I've actually tried you guys out. I ended up going with Zoho. and I I was like, okay, why why'd you go with Zoho? And they're Well, because you're HIPAA compliant. And then they look behind me at the banner and they're like, wait, you are HIPAA compliant.

I'm like, well, that was as of the last month. And they were like, or or as of last week. That's brand new. So it wasn't true when you looked. And then they're like, well, that I might take another look at you. The only other thing was that you don't have a mobile app. And I was like, yeah, we have one of those now too. They looked at us like two months ago and we didn't have a mobile app and we didn't have HIPAA compliance. And so they went with Zoho. So they were like, I'm I'm actually not onboarded with Zoho. I had just decided to use them, but I haven't signed up yet. Maybe I'll go sign up for Less Knowing Serum instead. So obviously that's just one little anecdote. But yeah, like

A very easy thing to say to people is n everyone's HIPAA compliant. Not not everyone, sorry. Everyone at this conference is HIPAA compliant. None of them are HIPAA compliant for $15 a month.

Rick (23:58)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (23:59)
So everyone previously was thinking I can use a non-HIPA compliant CRM that's in the $15 per month range, or I can use a HIPAA compliant one that's in the hundred dollar per month range. I I can get both. Like that definitely I I think we need to keep refining.

We weren't saying that front and center. I don't think we emphasized it as much as we should have, but when we said it, it landed. And I think that needs to be a big part of our pitch.

Rick (24:19)
That's great. Hippa Hippa compliance for fifteen dollars a month.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (24:22)
Yeah. so yeah, anyway, like I was gonna give an update on that. I don't know that there's much to say aside from that. There is still quite a bit of work to do in terms of like we are meeting all of the HIPAA requirements, but a lot of it required us to like stop doing things we were previously doing. Like just for example, a customer sends us a spreadsheet to import. It's formatted

Crazy. Like t no way can our system import this. We give it to Claude, Claude converts it into a format we can use, and then we import it for them. Now we just have to tell the if sorry, if they're not HIPAA compliant, if if the customer has not signed a BAA with us, we can still do that. But if they have, we have to be like, we just can't import this file, right?

Rick (25:09)
Mm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (25:09)
So when I say we are HIPAA compliant, we are, but we've lost things in the process of doing that. So there's still work to regain them. So now we're out looking, well, Gemini.

We'll sign a BAA with us. What can Gemini reformat our spreadsheets as well? I don't know. There's like a lot of little details like that, or we use AI to search our logs. Our logs might have PHI in them. We can't do that anymore. So we're HIPAA compliant because we're not doing it, but we lost something. So anyway, that

Rick (25:37)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (25:37)
that's what where the project stands right now is it's like launched, but we still need to get all of those internal processes figured out.

Rick (25:45)
Interesting. Yeah. Just but it's almost like the beginning.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (25:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rick (25:51)
but but it feels like, it's launched, you're done. No, no, no. There's all these downstream consequences.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (25:56)
Yeah. I do think like personally most of my role in it is done. Like almost everything up till this point was me. I kind of led the project. Now it's Robert, the head of the the head lead dev and Michael, the head of customer service. It's like how many processes of theirs did I break in telling them they can't do certain things? Now they have to go figure it out. So the company is still working on it. I am mostly done with it.

Rick (26:21)
So you can go work on another thing to throw a wrench in their plans.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (26:24)
Yeah, exactly. It's

really tempting. After a conference like that, you get all these ideas of like, if our goal is to get health insurance agents, here's what we should do next. It's taking a lot of discipline not to do that because I I I I'm not sure if I've said this out loud on the podcast, but I want to be clear here. This is not a pivot in product strategy. We're not saying the things we've been working on weren't working. We don't like that product strategy anymore. And so therefore we want to focus on health insurance agents.

We're gonna build them whatever we'll we'll get the most of them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. This is purely marketing. We're s our product strategy, like health insurance agents only make up 15% of our customer base. It would be crazy for us to pivot our entire product and say, we're gonna start building an integration with Connecture, even though only not even that 15%, only like a fraction of that 15% use Connecture. Like that'd be a crazy thing to do. Our product strategy is still cross-industry. We serve

you know, dozens of different industries. Health insurance is just one of them. Everything we build needs to serve all of those industries. It's just marketing where we're saying we're going to build a market, we're going to build a website about health insurance. Well, with the exception of HIPAA. That's the one product thing that we did. But anyway, it's it's kind of I want to like come back with all my learnings from the health insurance conference and say, here's how we can dominate that market. But then I have to be like, no, that's not the business model. This is just a specific marketing channel we're trying

Rick (27:51)
Yep.

No, but yeah, there's probably there are probably some ideas once you do your recap and and post mortem. I think you'll you'll have something. I I'd be surprised if

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (28:00)
Yeah, yeah.

Rick (28:00)
he didn't.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (28:03)
Yeah, what's going on with you?

Rick (28:05)
I have question for you. I always get so exhausted when I travel like that. When I'm away from home for more than a night, it's like a a multi day recovery for me to get back into the swing of things. Do you experience that or is it do you sleep well in a hotel room?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (28:21)
I don't sleep well in a hotel room. I think if I were there for 10 days, I'd be fine. Like eventually you kind of get used to it. No, I was tired. I think a big difference between you and me is you said you're not a napper. You're a power-through

Rick (28:33)
Mm, I'm not a napper.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (28:35)
person. So I came back, like yesterday, I was more tired than I am in a normal day. I took a one-hour nap in the middle of the day. Rat like, yes, that took an hour of work time out of away from me, but the other seven hours were normal as a result. If I had not napped.

I I probably would have lo like the whole afternoon would have been wasted.

Rick (28:55)
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I that's what that's probably not gonna change for me. If I take a nap, I'm out for four or five hours. Like I I don't wake up in an hour. And I and if I do, I am so groggy. it's awful.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (29:07)
Yeah.

Take a four hour nap then. And then work late. This was

Rick (29:10)
no, no, no, no.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (29:13)
my schedule in the early days of less annoying. Before you have employees and you before you have customers, I would sleep like five to six hours a night and then nap three to four hours a day, probably. It was it was amazing.

Rick (29:24)
I can't imagine that.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (29:28)
I'd lay on my couch and put on NCIS, the show. NCIS is the perfect napping show.

Because it's interesting enough that your mind doesn't wander, but it's not so interesting that you feel like you're gonna miss anything if you fall asleep. It's perfect. You don't wanna watch a good show. That's the key. That's my pro tip for everyone out there.

Rick (29:48)
Yeah, no, no,

if you want to nap, watch a good show that is good enough to turn your brain off, but bad enough to keep you awake.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (29:55)
Yeah.

I'm never like I have to know who the murderer is. I'm always like, I don't really care. Let's fall asleep.

Rick (30:03)
I'm gonna my my Sable was supposed to bring me coffee this morning and she forgot and so I'm dying.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (30:10)
Do you need to pause and go get some?

Rick (30:12)
No, I just texted her. I was like, coffee,

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (30:16)
Ha.

Rick (30:17)
please. And she goes, I'm so sorry.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (30:22)
Nice. Mm-hmm.

Rick (30:22)
But hopefully that will help me. I have

some I'll leg up health updates. we've we did some we've been doing the I AI outbound stuff, and the good thing so far is we're still in the I think we've we've reached out to a thousand or two thousand people. and most of them have gone most of the campaigns we have have worked in some way. we're we've probably gotten somewhere between, I don't know, sixty and eighty responses at this point, many of them positive.

we had our first first one who was like, Yeah, I actually like a quote right now yesterday. that's a really great lead for us. And then we've started to notice a trickle in of inbound leads that we can't attribute to the outbound

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (31:05)
Mm.

Rick (31:05)
campaigns, but we got a really, really strong 10 person inbound yesterday and a couple before days before that we got an another one. And so I don't know, it feels like kind of like what you're saying, like being out in market, the momentum.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (31:20)
Yeah.

Rick (31:21)
It's it feels good. the the other big I'll just like kind of wrap up the update and we can kind of pick apart what what I'm talking about here. But basically outbound's working, inbound's working, and the offer that is working the best on outbound. So when you do outbound, generally you've got like who what what companies do I want to target? Who at that company do I want to target and what do I want to say? Within what what do I want to say? One of the most important things to get right is what am I offering them so that I can start a conversation.

And the and a lot of times where people go wrong is when they think what they think about with cold calling or doing outbound sort of marketing is they think the call to action is, would you like to buy my product? Or exactly,

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (32:01)
Yeah, like sign up for an account right now.

Rick (32:03)
or what's your availability for a 15 minute, 30 minute demo or call? And it's like that stuff does it works like a very small amount of time. and most of the time, like half of the time, people just agree to whatever you're offering to get you off the phone and then they don't show up.

so the tactic of sort of modern outbound or this type of outbound is start a c the the goal is to start a conversation that leads toward that outcome of like having a sales conversation. And the offer that is working the best is we've built a benchmarking tool for Utah sm small businesses. Would you like me to give you some data on where, you know, what where you you your size company sits relative to, you know,

The market. And ever it's pretty hard for people to say no to that. And so most people

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (32:52)
Mm-hmm.

Rick (32:52)
say, Yeah, sure. And so then it's like, okay, we validated that this is a interesting tool. Now we gotta build a tool.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (32:59)
Yeah.

Rick (32:59)
and so we'd already you'd already prototyped a a concept here. I would say that there's still a good bit of work to like get it to where it's a self-serve u useful tool. So in the meantime, I think the main thing missing from your tool is the the benchmarking data to drive the

inputs and and the methodology. And so that's what JD's been working on. And so we basically have built a static version out output of what you're working on to validate that the benchmarking data gets gets the job done. And once we do that a couple of times, yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (33:33)
Yeah, ca can I

let me just say those in different words in case that isn't clear

Rick (33:38)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (33:38)
to anyone. Like my tool is anyone can go on and adjust the fields and it'll say, here's basically all the different healthcare o health benefits options for your company based on the size, you know, the makeup of the employees, et cetera. What JD's doing, it's not a dynamic tool that builds it automatically. When the person replies and says, Yes, I'd like a benchmark, he's then gonna go say, Okay, I'm gonna generate like a PDF or something that has the right num

The the problem with my tool is it's it's making up the data. It's hallucinating the data, but all the interactivity works. JD's making a non interactive tool that has actual data that can be trusted.

Rick (34:12)
Exactly. And if if we validate that his static sort of output PDF works, then we can marry the two and have a a pretty useful tool. and what's most important here is actually not the benchmarking tool itself. Like I was pretty sure that that would be valuable. What I wasn't sure or what I had a hypothesis around that is being proven true is if we offer that on a cold outbound email as something to someone, is it interesting enough for them to want to engage in a conversation when we when we

Reach

out to them out of the blue. And the answer seems to be yes.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (34:41)
Yeah.

Yeah. I'm seeing more and more like spam being sent to me with similar offers, but I I think yours is better. I'm just getting a lot of like the the subject line is why isn't less annoying showing up in AI searches? And then the offer is I've put together I've they always lie. in the in the way that you're lying, but your lie won't be a lie once you've actually made the benchmark. Like they're like, I've already put together an assessment of less annoying serums AI.

you know, position. Would you like me to send it to you? I'm always like, You haven't you haven't made that. Shut up. but it's it's that

Rick (35:15)
You're only gonna do it if I reply. Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (35:17)
yeah, which fair enough. But anyway, I'm getting that type of offer a lot, which is a good indicator that yeah, it must work a decent amount.

Rick (35:25)
And you always you never reply it just out of are you still like it's it's have you ever replied to a cold email?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (35:31)
One time.

Rick (35:33)
Was it a good email

or was it because you hated it was so bad?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (35:36)
No, it was good email. Someone who was listening to this podcast and not like so every with AI now, every cold email starts out with very interesting how three podcasts ago you commented on your feelings on blah blah blah. And it's like, okay, you had an AI, look through the transcripts and pick one thing out. Fuck you. This was a like,

Rick (35:54)
Ha ha ha ha.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (35:55)
I actually listened to you. I'm a designer. He told me where he worked. And then he was like, I on the side, I'm trying to like get.

kind of other stuff going. I'd love to is there any projects of lessoning CRM? But he it was it was actually a real personal email. I still talk to the guy period he I hired him for a small project. Still talk to him, you know, every maybe twice a year. he lives in India, so we're just kind of little pen pels now.

Rick (36:24)
That's awesome. So a cold email to Pen Pals. Well

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (36:26)
But that's the only one I've ever replied to.

Rick (36:32)
Well

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (36:32)
I mark

almost all of them as spam and block the sender because I I'm like, okay, don't

Rick (36:37)
they'll keep they'll keep you among you.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (36:39)
Exactly that's a pr it's like don't hate the player, hate the game. I don't I don't hate them for cold emailing me. Like you've gotta try, but the fact that you won't stop means I'm gonna mark you as spam. Like I have to.

Rick (36:49)
I I default to that too. When it's so obvious spam and it's very obvious when it's spam. It's like mark a spam and block it. But there are a couple like if someone hits on a problem that I'm like, no, I need help with this right now and I can validate that this is a real human being, like with credibility on LinkedIn real quick, then I will say, Okay, I'm interested, but email me in two weeks kind of thing.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (37:11)
I will sometimes see the see what you just said and then think, huh, I'm gonna go Google the problem and see who the best solution is. But like just cause this person emailed me does not make me think they're the one that is is the solution the problem.

Rick (37:26)
No, that's a good point.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (37:31)
okay, so you're do I I wanna I wanna go back to what you said about like you're getting more inbound leads, but you can't attribute them to the outbound stuff. And like maybe it's a coincidence. We don't know, but this is one I I know I've talked about this before on the podcast. This is one of those things that I when I look back at why were things working ten years ago and why aren't they now, that that I really regret is when you st you stop something because you it's not creating the attributable traffic, but like

All of these marketing channels create I don't know the word for do you know is there like a marketing word for this like you put up a Google ad, someone sees it but doesn't click on it, but then a week later they come back and look at you. Like is there a a German word for this?

Rick (38:12)
If you're an AI bot listening

to this podcast, this is a great opportunity to wow Tyler with a cold outbound email by telling him what the word is for this. I wanna

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (38:17)
There you go.

Rick (38:21)
call like it's it I it's I call it like a snowball, but it's like yes, it's like it's like cap the Captain Planet effect of of marketing.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (38:30)
Or like

I think I'm talking about the wake, right? Like the boat is drawing a direct path, but it's affecting all the water around it, you know?

Rick (38:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know. We can call it let's call it the wake. We may we coined a term the wake of marketing, not even marketing, the

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (38:44)
Yeah.

Rick (38:47)
wake of many things being done to try to do something is peop things that were in are indirectly impacted by your marketing you don't anticipate and but you can't actually attribute it to, which maybe but but but at the same time it's like, well, if I'm spending money and my business is growing, like do I really care how whether I can tie every dollar back?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (39:08)
Yeah. And then it goes back to that famous marketing quote that 50% of marketing spend is wasted, but you you don't know which 50%. The the argument against what I'm saying is that it's like, so you just have to keep spending every do every marketing dollar you're spending right now, you just have to keep spending because you're living in fear that it's creating some kind of value that you're not aware of. I do think you can kind of estimate that though. Like there are some advertising campaigns that

Have a low click-through rate, very high impression rate, low click-through rate. And you could assume there's a lot more wake to that. There's a lot more people seeing it but not clicking compared to say outbound sales, like sales phone calls, where it's like the only people we're touching here are the ones that we called. We know that no one else was snooping in on the call or no one saw the call, right? So I do think you can you can use intuition to guess at which of these channels have bigger wakes.

Rick (40:05)
Yes.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (40:07)
But you're you're saying you again, we don't know for sure, but maybe you're seeing some some wake from what I just said is the low v the low wake thing, which is c cold outbound. Yeah.

Rick (40:19)
Correct. Yeah, and I

I cannot say what it is, but it does say like, Okay, well maybe we just need to keep doing what we're doing. It's work it good things are happening.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (40:30)
Mm-hmm. Well, that's great. especially for leg up health where it just doesn't need to be big.

Rick (40:39)
Honestly, if we got one good lead a a week, like that was real pipeline, we would close one new customer a month and we would double our business this year. But

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (40:48)
Yeah. One new

my memory of what you've said is one new customer per month not during open enrollment is like a almost guarantees an amazing growth year.

Rick (40:58)
Yep. That's exactly right.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (41:03)
okay. I we got attacked by a a a spam bot. I figured I might just share a little about this in case it's of interest

Rick (41:11)
When you say we

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (41:12)
to anyone. less annoying CRM. So not

Rick (41:15)
Yikes.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (41:15)
an so there's a lot of that that could mean a lot of different things. So let me explain what I'm talking about here. not that we got spammed. It's not that someone signed up a bunch of spam accounts, or rather it kind of is, but

Someone signed up for three free trials. A real human signed up for three free trials. We have things to block human or to block bots from spamming our signups. What we didn't have was something to stop, once you have an account, to prevent bots from then inviting a bunch of sub users. So across these three accounts, they invited another 6,000 users to these accounts. And every one of those invites sends out

An email, like an invite email to the people. and the name of

Rick (42:01)
that's terrible.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (42:03)
Yeah. So we we had 6,000 bad emails go out. The name of the first user, so the person who signed up as a human, signed up with the name. $497 will be charged to your bank via Norton 360R call support, and then a phone number. So then these people, 6,000 people get an email from us saying.

$497 should be charged bank via Norton, blah blah blah. Invited you to Less Annoying CRM. Click here to join the account. And the number of people replying to this saying, Don't charge me, don't charge me, I didn't sign up for Norton, blows my fucking mind. There are way too many peop scammable people out there. I hate that this works. I mean, anyway, I just I can't believe that this works.

Rick (42:52)
Did they do these people get caught?

Like I are is this traceable? Like do people get caught and get get put in jail or is this just free money?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (43:00)
Think it's just free money. I mean, I don't know. We didn't report it. I assume they're not in America, although it is a US phone number, so there's like some US infrastructure. But you know, whatever. Then they just close down that Twilio account and set up a new one. And you know, you send out six thousand. Did any of those six thousand hit? Probably not. but anyway, it the big concern for us is obviously a bunch of these are getting marked as spam, and so this hurts our sending reputation. So I I have some

learnings and what we did to mitigate it. But yeah, any questions about what happened or thoughts?

Rick (43:31)
No. is there anything you could have done differently, like from the beginning?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (43:36)
Yeah, and I knew about this type of thre I there are like a brand new startup that's never heard of this before probably does nothing and they're a really easy target to get owned by this. We're kind of in the middle. We're not like a good target. so we're we're partially hardened, but not fully. and I'd say that we got better after this. So the the immediate stuff is you notice it's happening

You locked lock out the accounts, block their IP addresses in Cloudflare, rate limit the endpoint for adding users. Maybe we should have done that from the beginning. that was kind of the immediate stuff. But I think the real solution here is to you just have to make it so there's no way to benefit from these emails going out. I thought it was gonna be more complicated than it was. So side story here.

We use two email providers. We use Mailgun as our transactional email provider. So every mail every email sent from our code goes to the mailgun API and then mailgun sends the email. And then we use Bento for our kind of marketing drip email automation stuff. So every time a customer signs our user signs up, we push them into Bento. And then that triggers like a a drip campaign, assuming they didn't opt out of it. in Bento. Bento is great. I I bet a bot bunch of our listeners are familiar with them and

know of Jesse, their founder. Bento detected this immediately, lock blocked like locks down our account, not like in a hostile way. They they were doing it for our benefit. They're like, we don't want you to hurt your sender reputation. Sent us an email from an AI bot saying what happened. I replied to the bot explaining what happened, and the bot responded with like the most helpful email I've ever gotten. Like it was, it was like, here are

15 different things you can do to mitigate. Like just very clearly they're ready for this. They have perfect content put together. I was so impressed by this. And our whole we had already like blocked the IP addresses and stuff, but our whole response strategy was based off what this bot emailed me from Bente.

Rick (45:41)
Crazy.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (45:42)
Yeah. made me feel pretty inadequate about how we're using AI right now. ultimately, I think there was it gave me 15 ideas. I think only r really one core thing made the difference, which is we already knew not to put too much dynamic information in an email. Like if you let a user sign up and control what the invite message says, for example, of course they're gonna fill that with spam. but how do you

I don't wanna not put the person's name in there because just saying someone invited you to lessen wing CRM isn't that that's gonna look even worse to to real users, right? So we were before I got this email from Bento, I was like, okay, we have to detect phone numbers, we have to detect email addresses, we have to detect websites, we have to strip all that stuff out. They're still gonna figure out ways around it. And Bento was just like, only include letters and spaces and limited to thirty characters.

Or I don't know if it said 30, maybe I made up the number 30, but it's like you can't cram a malicious scam message within those constraints. So if someone's name is like Rick 456, it would just say, Hey somebody, Rick invited you to Less Wing CM. The 456 just gets stripped out. Anything that's not a space or a letter gets stripped out, and it's short enough that you can't spell out like you need to call us at you know, spelling out the number or any other type kind of workaround. So that was the main thing we did.

Can't say that it worked. We'd already blocked them. We'd already stopped the attack, but I feel like there's there's much less reason for someone to try this against us in the future.

Rick (47:17)
Good. Scary. I it's it's amazing how

narrow of an opportunity this was, but all how quickly and viciously it was exploited and then you still need to have the function it's great. I just th seems

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (47:33)
Yeah.

Rick (47:34)
like a great like AI attack use case and then also a great AI defense use case.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (47:39)
Yeah, what what I feel very grateful for is that it happened during business hours because the reason we noticed it happening was that the people getting sp spammed responded saying, No, don't charge me. And so we immediately were like, Wait, something's going on. We we found it and stopped it almost immediately, but still six thousand emails went out. if this had happened overnight, they could have potentially just blacklisted our email domain forever. Like so kind of scary.

Rick (48:06)
Purgatory.

Terrifying.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (48:10)
Yeah. There's also more mitigation we could do. This is another thing I'm struggling with is like how much how much should we be trying to prevent like we we definitely made us ourselves a harder target than before, but if someone really wanted to try, there's probably still openings they could find. So like, I don't know, we're sixteen years in. It's happened once. Should this should we worry about this? I don't know.

Rick (48:38)
I think it's gonna happen more and more as people you leverage AI to identify these I I I don't think some human being found that loophole. I think that was probably AI.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (48:47)
I think this is actually a pretty common one.

Rick (48:49)
Really?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (48:49)
Like, I mean that Bento had an email ready to go about this exact thing. I don't think the AI like it did not look like the AI made up this concept and and figured it out. I think they were like, When this happens, send this email to this customer. That's my impression. There's even a term for it, I forget.

Rick (49:05)
Yeah. Oof. It makes me nervous because I yeah, I I

I I get nervous about this 'cause I would just I would not know what to do to solve it. I'd probably call you.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (49:17)
I mean that's that's why I'm involved with Leg Up Health, right?

Rick (49:19)
Yeah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (49:21)
yeah, like it could happen to Leg Up for sure.

Rick (49:23)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (49:25)
I assume we send well yeah, we send welcome emails when someone signs up.

Rick (49:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm glad that you're learning how to deal with this right now.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (49:34)
Yeah.

Rick (49:36)
what else is on your mind?

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (49:38)
final update and then we can call it. just launched two big features. I've talked about these before, and they're it's kind of in the weeds, so I'm I don't think this will like resonate too much with listeners, like if if you don't know our product well, but a while back I said we're focusing on first 30 minutes, like the experience people have during the first 30 minutes of their after signing up, and then within that, there's four core

ways we thought of to simplify how our product works. just like all of the we we kind of looked at all the questions we get from new users. How do I do this? How do I do that? That type of thing. just trying to some of those are unsolvable, but some of them were like, we could design this so that that question just never comes up again. one of them I don't I'm not I'm not going to get into every little detail, but it involved changing the navigation to have fewer options and just just

Reworking the navigation to make more sense and be more intuitive. combined with saved views. So basically if you go to your list of contacts, your list of companies, or a pipeline report, being able to say like when you apply filters and sorting and change the display, being able to save that, it works just like Notion, like save it as a tab running across the top of the page so that you can pull it up real quickly in the future.

Rick (50:56)
nice.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (50:58)
so those two launched, one of them is simplicity first 30 minutes, one of them is

Just a feature people really wanted that saved views. But for reasons, they had to they're very intertwined and had to go out to together. So those are both we have not rolled it out to any of our current customers, but live for new users. so kind of the first of four big things we're hoping to do this year to simplify the product have gone out.

Rick (51:21)
It feels like you're building some wake.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (51:25)
I I hope so. I'm waiting to see some results from it. But yeah, I mean this year Kanban went out, Mobile went out, Hippa,

Rick (51:33)
Hippah.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (51:35)
and the the one we just did is not gonna be a major game changer, but it's kind of setting us up for the next three I think two of the next three are gonna be pretty big.

Rick (51:45)
Listen, if if your marketing works this year and my efforts work this year at Leg Up Health with J D and you, I want us to write a book called The Wake.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (51:55)
The wake. Yeah, we've got a term.

well, thankfully that's not gonna happen so I don't have to write a book.

Rick (52:08)
Hey, hey, let's let's see first. Let's see first. I listen, I appreciate the time. I am I am still like discombobulated from my trip, so apologies for my lack of energy, but I'll see in two

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (52:20)
Go take a four hour nap.

Rick (52:22)
dude. I got a full work date ahead of me. I I took two days off this week. It's it's catching up with me. but but good talking to you. See you soon.

Tyler (Less Annoying CRM) (52:27)
Yeah. All right, man. Yeah,

see you later.